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Question: How is an individual to
become a peaceful man?
Krishnamurti: How is an individual to become a peaceful man.
Q: ...in the world.
Krishnamurti: Same thing, sir. Now, let us please be clear
what we are discussing, what we are trying to go into. Which is, an individual,
a human, an individual, can he live a life in this world, a life of not being
corrupted, a peaceful life, and so on?
Now, individuality, the meaning of that word means indivisible. That
means a human being who is whole. Such an entity, a whole being, is really an
individual. But anybody who is fragmented in himself is not an individual. We
cannot use that word 'individual', which has very specific meaning. In English,
if you want to go into it, it means an entity, a human being who is whole, not
fragmented, who is sane, holy - H.O.L.Y. All that is implied in that word. And
we are asking how is a human being who is, who himself is in sorrow, confusion,
conflict, liable to be corrupted, liable to face all the misfortunes and the
aches of life, how is he to live here peacefully, intelligently, and a life that
has meaning. Can we discuss that? Let's stick to that. All that is implied in
that.
So I asked a question: how you sitting there look at the world. What is
your response or your relationship to the world? The world being the national
divisions, national sovereignties with their armies, the world of violence,
brutality, wars, hatreds, enmity, corruption - what is your, as a human being,
your relationship to all that? Go on, sirs.
Q: Yes sir, I think I try to make the best of it for my own...
Krishnamurti: No, no, no, please, sir, we are going step by
step into this.
Q: I am trying to answer that. As I am now, I try to make the best use
of it for my own purposes.
Krishnamurti: I asked a different question, sir.
Q: I'm sorry.
Krishnamurti: I asked what is your relationship to this
world.
Q: Attempt to penetrate the chaos into the divine order.
Q: (Inaudible)
Krishnamurti: Sir, please answer my question. If you don't
want to answer, it's all right. But you've asked me to discuss that and
therefore I'm asking you a question, a simple question: what is your
relationship to the world about you?
Q: I am part of it.
Q: We are part and parcel...
Krishnamurti: Sir, just a minute. You are part and parcel. I
don't know what that parcel means. (Laughter)
Q: (Inaudible)
Krishnamurti: Wait, sir, please, sir. You say you are part
of that world. Right? Now what do you mean by that? What do you mean when you
say, 'I am part of that world'?
Q: We are responsible for it.
Q: (Inaudible)
Krishnamurti: I'm sorry, sir, I can't hear what you are
saying, therefore please...
Q: (Inaudible)
Krishnamurti: Sir, look, we live in this world. Socially it
is immoral, politically it is corrupt, there is pollution, lack of energy, and
so on, so on, so on. What is my relationship to this?
Q: You are part of this world.
Krishnamurti: Do... What is my... Am I separate from that?
Or, I am the world, because I have created this world. God hasn't created it.
Man has created this misery, this world, of confusion, conflict, wars, tears,
suffering. That is the world we have created; we human beings have created it.
Isn't that so? You are rather doubtful about it? (Laughter)
Q: (In French)
Krishnamurti: So do you feel that you are the world and the
world is you? Because you have created this - your parents, your grandparents,
your - human beings have created it, this brutality, the wars, the injustice,
the sorrow, the tears - we have created it. No? Right, sir?
Q: Yes.
Q: Out of choice or compulsion.
Krishnamurti: There is no choice, sir. You are in it up to
your neck.
: I haven't created it.
Krishnamurti: So you have - because you as a human are
corrupt. You as a human being identify yourself with a nation, calling yourself
India or Indian and so on - Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant, Communist,
Mao and so on - you have divided the world as India, Russia and so on. Right?
Aren't you responsible for it? No? Sir, how extraordinary. You'd rather discuss
abstract subjects about which you know nothing and get very excited, but when
you face reality like that, you are responsible, you as a human being living in
this country are responsible for everything that is going on - for the corrupt
politicians, for the people who are in politics who want to hold positions, you
know, all the rest of it - power - you are responsible. So you are the world and
the world is you. Whether you like it or not that is a psychological,
physiological fact. Right?
Q: How is it that I am responsible for this, for this mess?
Krishnamurti: Aren't you?
Q: (Inaudible)
Krishnamurti: Wait. Don't you call yourself a Hindu?
Q: Yes.
Krishnamurti: And the Muslim; Pakistan and India, and they
are at war. You are a non-Brahman or Brahman, hate each other, exploit each
other, all the rest of it is going on. Aren't you responsible for that?
Q: The individual... (inaudible) ... has contributed.
Krishnamurti: Sir, we are not deaf. I've explained, sir.
Individuality means a human being who is not broken up, fragmented; and we, most
human beings are fragmented which means contradictory, they live a contradictory
life. Therefore you cannot call yourself an individual.
Q: But we have not come here at our willing, sir.
Q: No, we are born helplessly in the world.
Krishnamurti: We are born helplessly. We come into life. We
didn't want to come here. (Laughter) You people are not serious at all. You are
playing with words. Sir, the house is burning. Your house is burning and you sit
there, discuss, and say, 'I wasn't... they didn't ask me before I was born'.
Sir, do look at this problem, please. This is really a vitally important
question that is troubling the whole world, not your little mind but the whole
world is concerned about this. What is the relationship of a human being with
the world which he has... which exists? If I am corrupt, I am part of that
world. If I call myself a Hindu, I am part of that world. If I support national
sovereignty, I am part of that world. No? Do you... are you silent about this,
sirs?
Q: What if I am good and not corrupt?
Krishnamurti: What if I am good and not corrupt. Are you?
Q: Yes.
Krishnamurti: Oh, sir, don't, don't. It's like saying when
the house is burning, what is the colour of your hair. Do please face the fact.
Both psychologically and physically you are the result of your culture. Right?
The culture: your tradition, your gods, your economic state, your divisions as a
Brahman, non-Brahman, hating each other, poisoning each other. Aren't you
responsible for this? No?
A: Yes, sir.
Krishnamurti: Therefore, sir, you are the world and the
world is you. You may not like it, you may think you are most extraordinarily
spiritual, divine, etc., etc., but the fact is you are part of this world and
the world is you.
Q: One cannot constitute the world. The individual cannot constitute the
whole world.
Krishnamurti: The individual cannot constitute the whole
world. I explained just now, sir, what the individual means. Aren't you the
whole world? The whole world is suffering. The whole world is in tears. They are
afraid of death. They have divided themselves into nationalities, into religious
sects, Catholics, Protestants, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims. They are suffering;
you are part of that suffering. No? Oh, for god's sake...
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